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Diana Carlin, Nichola Gutgold and Theodore... Education. (2012) 'Gender and the American Presidency Nine Presidential Women and the Barriers They Faced.'

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Elizabeth Dole 15, Clinton 7, Bob Dole 7, Us 5, Washington 5, Kassebaum 5, Kathleen Sebelius 5, Kansas 5, San Francisco 4, Dianne Feinstein 4, Barbara Lee 4, Harriet Beecher Stowe 4, Feinstein 3, Barbara Mikulski 3, Nikki 3, Scott Brown 3, Bible 2, Calvin Stowe 2, Obama 2, Canada 2,
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  CSPAN    Book TV    Diana Carlin, Nichola Gutgold and Theodore...  Education.   
   (2012) 'Gender and the American Presidency Nine Presidential...  

    October 7, 2012
    7:45 - 9:00am EDT  

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>> diana carlin, theodore sheckels and nichola gutgold examined the qualifications of nine women in politics. that includes olympia snowe, barbara mikulski and elizabeth dole and why they haven't been considered as possible contenders for the presidency. this is just over an hour. >> thank all of you for coming out. it's great to have you back.
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great to have you here as new friends. let me start tonight and ask you, you focus in your book on nine women. how did you select those nine women? >> i think the best answer is we could have looked at more, but within the confines of the book you can only do so much. so we wanted diversity. we wanted democrats, republicans. we wanted different parts of the country. to some extent we wanted different ages. we knew on the basis of nine, you can't make generalizations that are 100% certain. we say as much in the book. our conclusions are hypotheses that other people might now run with, but in order to make even those kind of a hypotheses we needed a fairly diverse group.
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>> we also included women, yeah, there's a white house project that's been around a while, and they had eight in '08. so several other women that the white house project has identified several years before the 2008 election, olympia snowe, kathleen sebelius were both in there, and we wanted to also consider this notion -- barbara lee who has been are sober years ago when he did the last round of madam president, six years ago with her foundation a doctor looking at women governors would want to look at some of the women governors who have been through some of barbara lee's training as a pipeline to the presidency. >> we also made the observation that when a male is elected to senator schiff, immediately he is cast as a future presidential hopeful. for example, scott brown hadn't even been sworn in yet in massachusetts, and the url scott brown -- or scott brown twinkled.com was already
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purchased. but so many women have been in washington for so many years as legislators and working on important work come and get their names never bubbled to the top. we were curious why not. >> how did you decide you wanted to write this book? all three of you studied similar topics, but how did this book actually come about? >> your idea, ted. spent i guess it was my idea. i've been a political nerd since i was, you know, i don't, my parents still remember my sister and i in 1960 staging a nixon-kennedy debate. my owl the beat her rabbit. and during all of those years of nerd am, -- nerdom, a magazine issues had come out way in advance of the presidential
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election, that we previewed the eight or 10 or 12 people who ought to be considered. and it is simply struck me after seeing so many of those issues in so many magazines that women were not making it on to that list. they were not being thought to be presidential. they were thought for some reason not to be a presidential timber. so as an academic, you tend to ask well, why? that for me was the origin of the book. no, why is it that women are not quickly commune, coming into those lists. >> ted a ritually pose this. for those graduate students out there, you can take a conference papers and turn them into publications. living proof of it. we started this as a conference program and what each did to women, and there was an editor who nikki had worked with honor
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and elizabeth dole both who is in the audience and came up and talked to us and said, you know, can you expand this and make a book? so we said sure. then it was a matter of picking and choosing. >> for example, two of the women i work on, often other people say i don't know who they are. the governor of washington state, former governor of hawa hawaii. but little note i think on the national stage. exit question why not, why i find out well known. >> i think an of and to the question of going to ask in a neutral way to is there a double standard in the way that women are covered by the news be and how they're judged either a fierce? >> yes. [laughter] >> glad you said it first. >> you know the answer. >> actually want my co-authors when i was here, when mike wretched students, she and i did
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an article in communication studies after the 2008 election that barbara alluded to looking at the news coverage of sarah palin and clinton and the sexism that was there. and it was appalled i know when i had my husband read it to edit it before we send off he said you're making his stuff up. chris matthews did not say that, or the photographer, -- you know, and i think it is far worse than we may be think it is. and these women who we studied really did have some of that stuff. >> i think it's more confident for women to present themselves physically in public because there is no uniform because there's a lack of a legacy. we haven't had a woman that we can say this is what a woman president looks like. so the press tends to cover her appearance before the cover what she stands for and what she plans to do as president.
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>> there's discrimination based on adherents generally. it's not just something that affects women. there's discrimination against people who are overweight, discrimination against people who are short. but it seems to be particularly intends for women candidates as opposed to men candidates. chris christie, you know, should he have run or should he run will certainly get some attention because of his weight but he will not be ruled out because of his weight. a woman, comparable woman might be ruled out. >> and a good example of that is elizabeth edwards, when her husband was vice president xi was ridiculed for her weight and her appearance, even after she died, i can recall reading some articles about her that pointed to her appearance. i think it's an example of the
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scrutiny that women feel when they run for office or when they are even spouses of a candidate. >> why did you find that to be the case? i can't remember a single time somebody saying them what is the president not wearing a suit today, or why is governor romney wearing jeans today instead of wearing a suit. i had a candidate once who was noted for wearing gucci loafers, and that did make the media, but that's the only example i can think of. >> jimmy carter with his cardigans. if remember those of you who are old enough, and blue jeans, there was some criticism but nothing like what women go through. we had some examples in the book, for instance, kathleen sebelius told a story about being in the first debate when she's running for governor the first time, and she had on some peak coaches and ap right was a very good political writer, talked about the color of her toenail polish. this is like healthy thing that
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she had shown up and he was describing what she was wearing them and then if you remember when michele bachmann was one, there were photographs of for french meals and whether or not these were appropriate for someone running for president, with the way they were shaped and the french meals were appropriate. and nancy pelosi, we mentioned -- i don't remember the chapter, but somewhere in the book, when she first became speakers there was this whole series of for pearls, and it taken next shots in the first few which is more like six different kinds of pearls. and this was, nobody than six different kinds of neckties. maybe that's because there's not enough variety, i don't know. >> but nobody, i think what you wear can send messages, but for men the messages are maybe received by their quickly pushed
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aside. he's more casual, he's more uptight. but the messages are quickly pushed aside. diane feinstein who has fine fashion taste, early in her career had a really tough time getting people to think that shed any understanding whatsoever of the problems that the disadvantaged experienced in san francisco because her at higher screen that she was from a wealthy part of the city. her attire was sending a message that got in her way. >> what are some of the other key differences that winning seek high office space other than men seeking high office? >> there are so many. we were talking about is a
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little bit at dinnertime, the fact that a woman needs credentials that are the highest caliber, where as as i mentioned earlier, a man you just comes onto the national scene who is perhaps just elected senator can run for president, or be seen as presidential. were as the woman needs foreign affairs experience. you know, she needs to preferably be a governor, and that some of the work barbara lee has done with keys to the governors mentioned, the idea that it wouldn't be acceptable for a woman to just get elected president from a senate position. she would need more than that. the highest level of credential where as we will accept a than a resume from a male candidate because he looks the part. >> we were talking about this at dinner that, you know, a male candidate they will say well, he can appoint a vice president running mate who can fill in the gap. so if they aren't that
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experience in foreign policy than you get somebody running with you to take care of that, or vice versa. but women seem to have have all of those things. and we interviewed most of the women in the book, and they talk about that, nancy spoke about and said -- she'd been on the senate foreign relations committee. she was an expert on africa specifically, but she had that but she said, you know, part of her issue she said was the one look presidential standing next to the generals who were -- who will tower over me. she laughed when she made this comment. elizabeth dole, i was recounting i almost wrecked my car going up to campus one morning after the iowa straw poll in 2000 when elizabeth dole did very well. so they had a roundtable of pundits on national public radio the next morning ago talking about are sort of surprising strong finish and they were attributing it well, she been here a lot when her husband was running. so we really can't take her service because she has no commander in chief background.
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what has she done that would prepare her to be commander-in-chief, and no one will take are strictly. that's when i almost wrecked my car. >> i want to point you to other things. women have to worry about appearing too feminine or too masculine. they are negotiating a minefield there, and either way they do, there are problems. now, then perhaps have to worry about appearing feminine, but no one is going to say oh, he's too masculine to be president or senator. so it's a lot more complicated for a woman. and also i think male candidates can be more aggressive without running the risk of being labeled in some way. so i think that, you know, there are barriers but there are also factors that women are caught in, areas where they have to take a carefully nuanced
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approach where men are a lot more free to just move. >> also, women have been fantastic surrogates for the spouses have been running for president. elizabeth dole was a very good example. she was such a powerful campaigner, she had her own plane. she crisscrossed the country work on behalf of bob dole. she spoke so lovingly and engaging and convincingly on his behalf. i have not seen a male spouse at the caliber of the women we have had, and i think it's fair to say bill clinton was both hillary clinton's best ally and worst detractor when she ran for president. ..
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they don't know what the role of male is. >> two women that have been very prominent, hillary clinton and elizabeth dole, they are very prominent, politicals. they want to get in there and say some days as well. >> that's very interesting discussion. we talked at the outset that she wrote about nine different women and how you select to them. i selected for that i actually want the three of you to spend a little bit of time developing your thoughts on them. three of them have kind of a direct relationship to the dole
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institute in kansas and one of them is just the most prominent united states senator. each of you kind of took a lead on these chapters, said the procedure laid down individual person could kind of start, but then the other two could kind of jumped in. we'll start with senator dole. >> i think she was really penalized for the presidential candidate. i don't know about you, but when i go to hear a speaker, i like someone who came repair to speak well. and elizabeth is no cheaper pair extremely well for her speeches. i interviewed elizabeth dole twice. i interviewed abdul and bob dole is a little funny. i said, tommy senator dole has you prepare for her speeches. he does i get them once and that's how i prepare. that's why not any good. he goes, but in contrast,
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elizabeth i can hear her voice coming out of the kitchen and that's elizabeth practicing her speech for tomorrow. she might've given a speech 28 times, but she's got practice on our time to make sure she's good. i've seen her speak in public and she's elegant and engaging in excellent. i've been teaching public speaking over 20 years. she is all the qualities of a good speaker. as a presidential candidate, her perfectionism would cast a negative of the price was right that her assistants count how many steps there are to the podium. well, that's a good thing to know if you have to walk the steps. but yet, she was seen as overly prepared, perfectionistic. no candidates in contrast to be described as disciplined and on message. so i think that is a big drawback that i think elizabeth dole faced and it wasn't her fault. she was doing something most audiences appreciate their speakers to do a modest come speak well.
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so that was one big way but i think she was penalized in the press. when she ran for president she had not held elected office, and so i think that was a big drawback for her. she subsequently won a senate seat, republican seat from north carolina. she served one term and that would've qualified her more every presidential race came after that. i think i was a real drawback for her. the one other thing i would say is that she was counted so strongly in the eyes of the american people as the spouse of bob dole because of her ardent campaigning for him, that i think some voters had a hard time casting her as the candidate herself. because she was the wife of bob dole and it helped them for so many years, for so many campaigns and i think that
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starve circuit rule followed her. >> said they lost that of the fact she served on the white house senior staff considers cabinet secretary to president. >> yes, and president of the american red cross come a huge community or organization, but secretary of transportation, secretary of labor come a long washington career. and often come a elizabeth dole of recount her biography in the beginning of her speeches, perhaps to establish or eat those to rot in, but mainly for those three reasons. i think that she had a hard time as a candidate herself. >> okay. secretary kathleen sebelius. >> issa the lead on that one and had a chance to really spend quite a time talking to her and of course that was following her career in kansas. she had been, you know, 2004,
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shown in an in office two years and they're already rumors about her potentially divided presidential candidates were john kerry. it is really funny because she and tom vilsack apparently had been washington. she told the story and they went to see the kerry staff for something on agriculture, so they send are being interviewed. she told me she had been up added by the kerry campaign, but her name got out there. once famous out there, the media starts paying attention. people were fascinated by the fact here is a democrat whose one and a. whatever they forgot over the last 47 years as he had more in governorship years then we had republicans. but it was not an anomaly. the press often doesn't have an historical memory. it was like this is a real anomaly in kansas as this democrat has been elected.
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i think her father governor of ohio had the ohio connection, which is a very state. so she really captured the national attention very quickly. and they had her showcased at conventions and all. but then by 2008, she really was becoming a serious, serious contender for vice president and when she endorsed obama, that also moved her stock. if you're a member come issues in the running. she was one of the last three or four people obama was considering. a lot of the newspapers were saying this really be the choice. but you know, there were a lot of things really against her. one was her speaking. she's not a very exciting speaker. if anyone saw her at the democratic convention last week, it was not in emanuel cleaver speech or a bill clinton speech.
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it was a very measured speech. you could tell she was reading off the teleprompter. it was very solid information, but almost monotone. if you hear her off because she's very different, but she can really do a speech very well when she's really not the transcript. and she was really sad and depressed by it. when we do this at the communication convention, i actually rot a clip of john daly -- jon stewart on "the daily show", really lampooning her speech that she gave after in response to president bush's last state of the union. anybody who has given the response to the state of the union is someone who is perceived as an upper newcomer in the party. it was not well done. i have seen some heads shaking. john stewart had a great time lampooning that speech. and a lot of other people had written about it. from a communication perspective, she was not
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inspirational. in kansas would bring anything to the ticket for john kerry and i was a lot of what was written in 2004. she's not going to bring a whole lot here. and that was true. flush it is foreign-policy experience. she said really the thing that made a difference in joe biden versus her wasn't foreign-policy experience and she agreed those essential appears to shoot several strikes start, but she's been a very good cabinet secretary. and who knows what that may take her 2016. >> okay. part or i suspect i know who will take the lead him out of nancy kassebaum. >> we put me in the end for several reasons. one, the first woman elected to the senate in her own right. there was an article about what the science article written about 30 or 35 years ago about the women in congress and the title was over his dead body.
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and there's still quite a few women in congress who got their because their husbands die. some of the first women, she followed her husband who had died when the policy and then took that over. and so, kassebaum was the first one who would never followed the south. and now once again gave her a lot of tension. it is a very highly visible rays, covered even one of the london newspapers commented it the day after the election. q. we have one woman in the senate. if you're one woman you would get a lot of attention. two years after she was elected she was like one of the temperatures of the national convention. people were already touting her as a national force a national figure. and she had a lot going for her that i think they commanders should be undertaken if that's not presidential, at least vice presidential.
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that way she blended with what was said was talking about. those of you remember nancy kassebaum, she was a perfect example of the way woman politician should communicate. she can be very forceful, but very feminine at the same time. i remember watching her on c-span, grilling somebody in a senate foreign relations committee hearing one day where they were not giving her the answer she wanted. instead of really being aggressive, she kind of shook her head and had a pencil and goes maybe you didn't understand my question. let me free free say. so then she goes maybe i can become more specific. it wasn't her question. this person didn't want to answer, but she kept after him until she got the answer. she smiled and was polite and she was aggressive, but she was aggressive in a very feminine way. but she really balanced out. when she ran for the senate the first time, there were two ads are never forget your juice pumping gas at one and british
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airways thread, that can make a good kansas housewife. she was talking about the price of gasoline. 1970 was nothing like today, but still pretty high. in the second one she was talking about the price of grocery and appealing to families. so she had that common touch and she was also able to attract a lot of democrats. there were a couple things that really held her back to one, she a moderate and we all know that the extremes tend to dominate parties, especially in primaries. we talked about that in the book. she bitterly was on the shortlist for consideration for george h.w. bush and she told me that when she found that out and that there is polling being done, where she was like a top choice of a lot of people nationally, but she has to have her name removed and she did because she had really disagreed
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with the president, with reagan several times and she knew bush would follow similar policy. she really felt like a president needed someone who he could agree with and that they would have enough differences of opinion that it would not be comfortable for him or for her. so she was through for that reason. >> okay. very good. before that want to highlight, senator dianne feinstein. >> kathleen hall jamieson is the former dean of the school of communication at the university of pennsylvania. she is a prolific scholar and several years ago she wrote i think a very good book, which outlines a number of finds that women in iran and then run for public office. and dianne feinstein was i think amazingly able to overcome most
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of these double bonds. for example, although early in her career, in san francisco, as mayor, there is a lot of attention paid to her attire and how expensive it was. and somebody noticed very early in her career she looked an awful lot like snow white. and that has stayed with her through the years. i forget the exact year in the exact situation, but she was being considered. i think it was for the presidency along with seven rather diminutive male candidates. snow white and the seven doors that year. but she managed as she matured to look very stately. you know, she is very tall and
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she looks sufficiently feminine, but that stateliness makes her look like a highly successful businesswoman. so feminine, and the careful attention to attire, but at the same time, the height coming the stateliness, she overcame and found a way to work masculine feminine double bond. it is interesting to me to have a chapter on feinstein, compare her style of barbara boxer. they were elected the same year. newspaper accounts refer to them as the boxer plan, which if you know their politics and their style, they are not really twins peered barbara boxer has a very aggressive style. if you know the research commented. that is out there in the feminine style, she is a classic example of the feminine style,
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boxer. feinstein's style is quite different. she is not a lawyer by training, did very lawyerly style. she outlines the arguments, goes to be sure to make him presents the evidence. she caused closed authorities and then she moves on. it is assertive. it's strong, but it's not overly aggressive. so she avoids a lot of the problem that women fight frequently. she manages the finance, almost all of the double binds the jamieson talks about. what hurt her with the fact that i think the chapter begins by talking about her in the moderate. the more accurate term to she is an independent. some of her political decisions are positions that liberal democrats simply do not like.
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her position on capital punishment, for example. on the other hand, there are positions she'd taken down through the years that republicans certainly do not like. and it's not that she's in the middle as much as on some issues she is here, some issues she is there. in the primary process as such because the voters are heavily estranged. she simply in the primary process by democrats who would not be in this year's democratic enough. we quote in the chapter a fair number of democrats who don't say as much, cholerae closet republican. say she's a democrat. i think was ralph nader, democrat and republican clothing. her problem was her politics, her independent, moderate if you will politics disqualified her. we say i think in the conclusion of the book, many women, this is
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a generalization and obviously generalization are exceptions. but many women go into politics because they want to get something done. there is a problem, they want to solve it. if they want to help craft legislative solution to the problem. then perhaps get into politics because they liked again. there was a higher level of ego involved. well, feinstein is someone who has worked long and hard to solve problems and she's done it in a cooperative way, an independent way. she can be very, very strong. but she is always in her career in san francisco and in the united states senate try to solve problems. i think it is really unfortunate that the public office trying to solve problems this year
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cumulative record that is going to make you unpopular. but i think that is what happened to dianne feinstein. she took the position that made sense in some of those positions caused her to ultimately not a consideration. she was almost a vice presidential nominee in 1984. walter mondale had it down to. so she got that close. she didn't aspire to the presidency. she said long, long ago that it was something she wanted, but the way she conducted her political life was simply independent. >> what are the key factors in why women hasn't been elected president and what's it going to take? >> we haven't had enough women in the pipelines. and something ted was alluding to, the fact that the governor runs for president, he or she hasn't gotten into into the
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legislative issues that often disqualify them. and that can help them have a smoother run to the white house and we need more women governors to move them into the pipeline. i would say a lack of critical mass, enough women with the credentials that would get them into the white house. >> and preferably a woman governor has spent time in congress and served as this committee or something so that they bring up foreign policy piece and i don't have the elizabeth dole problem for the kathleen sebelius problem. >> i also think there needs to be a cultural change. we had -- many people have a difficult time envisioning a woman in the white house. we need to get over that. we need to be able to think in those terms. so those pictures have shown us
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that. television shows are fat. maybe we need more of that said that she began to envision a woman as commander-in-chief. >> we did a poll as part of our research for this book and we asked over 500 college-age women whether or not those of hillary clinton and sarah palin helps them to think that a woman would be president in our lifetime because the thinking is they are the future candidate. and the results indicate a gas, the more women who run, the more likely young women believe that a woman will be president. so we need more people -- more women to run for office, to get into the pipeline to be qualified to run for president. >> kathleen sebelius talked about this issue that she had a lot of young women that would come talk to her about what it takes to get into politics. they kept saying things like i don't know if i can do it. i don't know if i'm qualified.
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i don't know if i'm capable of doing it. and sebelius quotations in the book her for a sane men that. you know, every last one who runs for student government president is going to go for congress. but you know, there is not a lack of self-confidence and a lot of young men interested in politics that there isn't young women. and you know, one of the things kassebaum talked about intent is right, so many of the women who have got into politics have gotten in because of some vague. barbara mikulski was preserving her neighborhood. i was that a program at the national archive about four or five years ago i happened to be in washington and not allude to an end, which just written a book called politics with a couple of other women
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politicians, both parties. they had all gotten in because of some issue. and it was a crosswalk that they needed for her kids to get to school safely. and you know, kassebaum got out on the school board. so if you can get women to get in at that level, then you can begin to develop the confidence, but it is hard i think for women to see themselves in those positions. >> something really struck me that's not in the book. it should've been in the book perhaps. up until recently, perhaps the women who were trained to seek the presidency for candidates who recognize they were symbolic candidate. they didn't really think they had a chance to win. that is changed. hillary clinton that she had the chance to win. michelle bach when was not
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trying to symbolize anything. once upon a time, many african-americans who ran for the president he also thought of themselves as symbolic candidate. that is changed. so perhaps the shift from i am running is assembled to i am running seriously has occurred and we are now going to see women not just making a gesture, but women going after the opposite. >> i have one last question and i'm going to open it up to questions and answers from the audience. i'm going to ask what my student workers to find out if we were able to sell the book and if we were having a problem with actually selling the books if somebody could find that out for me and let me know. we can sell the books. okay, good. i know everybody here tonight wants to buy one and get it signed. before i open it up to your
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questions, my final question for each of the three of you his name one of two women in the pipeline that nikki spoke about, who are out there, when four years depending on the outcome of this election in eight or 12 years might be a serious candidate for president. >> i would say debbie wasserman schultz and florida. i've heard her speak her she was running the democratic national convention and they think she is a very articulate spokesperson for democrats. i would watch her. i think she is one to watch. >> i would say two things first before it means somebody. one, four years is a long time. who in 1972 would've predicted jimmy carter in 1976. who, eight years ago would've thought barack obama would be the standard in 2008. so for years i was the woman
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could be somebody. we're not even thinking. that's one thing i would say. second thing i would say is when you asked the question earlier, i had a hard time thinking of a name because it strikes me that we have been something of a gap. we are seeing women who are part of second wave feminism, women who try to make a statement of reaching that point in their career when they are retiring, the point where they are beyond running perhaps although it's not john mccain. so that is something we talk about in the book, h. and how women age faster than none politically age. but there seems to be a gap between that generation and a new group that is coming up. so it is really hard to point to
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somebody in the pipeline. but the person i would point to is nikki bailey. i think that she has managed some thing in south carolina very well and, you know, she has the advantage of the city, bringing diversity to the republican party. i think given that one argument that the republican party needs diversity. >> we all kind of looked at one another when bill asked us this question because i agree, the pipeline is a little thin right now. susanna martinez, if you buy this idea that you can elect mark governor says president that we do members of congress. i think barbara lee is right. i think that is for the pipeline is likely to come from.
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she's articulate. she's only been in office a couple of years. every six years depending how she's groomed. i think she is the potential. elizabeth warren kind of depends on what happens in a few weeks with her. and she selected, i think she's some unutterable lookout. we just need to get more women elected. we only have 17% of congress as women right now at research has been done at the center occurred several years ago soberly to make any kind of the difference. ted todd about changing the culture is coming with the composition of congress, more women sharing important committees. one of the unfortunate things is because bow out of the women we profiled in this book who are still in congress like olympia
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snowe had the same problem diane feinstein has, but on the republican side. so a lot of the women are giving up or don't really see themselves as being able to compromise getting things done in order to please for primaries. >> for various reasons, women are achieving seats in the house before anyplace else. and beside it just need easier for anybody to get elected to the house or the senate or to a statehouse, i mean the focus many things have on local issues, on solving problems where they live is pushing them into the house. there's a real precedents in the country, electing somebody who's only experienced in the house of representatives.
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it starts all members of the hospice, but but it's got to be the b. team. they don't really know national issues because they are serving just their local constituents. and so, i think there's even one president, except for gerald ford was elected from the house. so women may be in the house, but getting into the house may not get them into the white house. it's going to take governors and senators. >> okay. let's open it to questions and the spirit if you have a question, raise your hand and wait for a microphone to come to you. let's give students a chance to ask. if you've got one, we'll start with you. >> ask if you deal with the issue of women candidates in how you do that. that's a very important image that people have went age and so
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forth. >> the women in our book all have adult children and they really didn't get into politics in a serious way other than, for instance chemist to delius, she ran for the house after her children were older, they were in school, but she didn't run for governor until one was in college and one was in high school. pelosi, same thing. her children were pretty well raised. >> she has his 16-year-old daughter who is okay to run for the house the first time. that was her youngest child. >> and kassebaum didn't run until her children were college and making one in high school. she also talked to them. so i think that is an issue and that is much more difficult i think for women. if you look at palin, the number
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of women when we did the article, you know, the number of women who criticize palin for not being a good mother because she had these young children. i know my own mother is of a very different generation kept saying i don't know how she could be vice president and have a baby. so you heard these things, so it is an issue. there is a wife to take care of the children. >> this is one of the other double binds and there's been a number of ways to deal with that, sequencing being a mother first and then a afterwards is one of the ways of handling the issue. dianne feinstein had a daughter with a lot of people in san francisco didn't even know she had a daughter because her daughter was off to the side. feinstein had means in very good
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daycare. that's another way of handling it. or in the case of barbara mikulski, she does not have children. >> nor does dole. >> proposed safety for children. advertises herself. it works in maryland and how the entire family and yet she doesn't have children by. >> salsa one of the things you talk about is your very unlikely to elect a woman who has never been married. that's another issue. >> i also think the children are a liability if get into trouble. the press is more likely to explain that the godfather and on the part of a male candidate. >> kristen, to the question?
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>> with some other countries, we've seen female leaders and many other countries around the world. to come to mind right away, hatcher and merkel. what is different than what were experiencing? >> we talked about that earlier. we say in other countries -- under parity, an equal amount of male and female to run for elected office. we also talked about family legacy in some countries that is part of the leadership in other countries. but obviously we are really lagging behind. >> parliamentary systems make it much easier than our system does. and there are constitutions that state specifically what percentage of representatives in parliament need to be. and i raise this question with a class in politics and i ask my students, why do you think, especially the european
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countries? and someone said monarchy. they are used to queens. and you know, there probably is something to that. or you have to endure a father and bizarre bhutto and a lot of other examples of that type of family life. we just don't have either of it. >> and i would point you to other countries that are arguably most like us. canada and only one female prime minister and was a very short-lived term. in australia, only now. so when those two countries, i think some of the same dynamics that exist in this country. it's only now occur. and kim campbell, who was the sole woman prime minister of canada, she encountered -- she really encountered a plot of the same problems that we talk about in the book, when she ran for
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both leader of the party, which made her prime minister and i ran the election shortly thereafter. her attire was talked about, marital history was talk about. the fact that she was dating somebody was talked about. so when those two cultures, you see some of the same thing you see in this country. >> three of the question here? kaitlyn. >> women have had to chuckle through life. do you see this as an advantage over all? in climbing the pole ignoring the fact that they start later, maybe they won't get that far up on the greasy pole, but the
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flexibility -- [inaudible] -- advantage in the future. >> well, you know, a book i read about elizabeth dole describes a rhetorical style is rhetorical multitasking. even though she is not have children, i would argue she's juggled multiple roles in a way perhaps they haven't as a spouse of a candidate, for example. and so, i think successful women politicians are able to address a number of constituents and they give a speech. for example, elizabeth dole to speak about her role as american red cross president. so she was able to bring that kind of a role, what she propose she would do as president of the united states. she would also talked about how women are more consensusbuilding and it comes from having to juggle so many roles in other areas of their lives. so perhaps there's something to
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that. but perhaps is the families are moving to a more egalitarian lies, where men juggle many roles, too, that will also receive. i think it's probably better if it does. >> next question. >> i just wanted to follow up on one point i raised about women being president in other countries. if you didn't realize that, brazil, argentina, chile, nicaragua, panama and my favorite country, costa rica. >> at point. next, we've got some students. let's get some students and. we've got one right here. so don't skip anybody. if they were first coming to them, but let's make sure we get some students. >> hello. this is really similar to what you guys have been talking about for a while. but i have noticed specifically
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it seems like women and how what is seen as a bad family were it not, family, like that lady who is single and critiqued for it. while they cannot really play the card that they have a successful family without people critiquing done as well. like i have heard that people are critiquing hillary clinton and bill clinton because they think that bill clinton supported the democratic dirty in this election is only so that hillary can maybe have a better chance in the next election. so she's not allowed to use her family as anything to promote her campaign, while a man would be allowed to. but at the same time, she might be critiqued for having a bad family. >> could point.
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>> in conjunction with that, if you assume that the clinton marriage has had some difficulties, i think the general public probably blames hillary. i think if bill clinton could run again, he would you like to. but hillary, there are still nagging questions about all of the relationship and family baggage. so i think you're right. >> okay, we have a question over here. >> this kind of follows the same track as that last question. because the media plays such a crucial role, what advice would you give a woman in public office when she receives very public criticism? >> i think the best way to do with any criticism is a sense of humor. you know, nancy kassebaum is really good at this.
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it wasn't so much that she got criticism, but she is so much attention on her being the only woman. and there's a couple lines i quote in this chapter, where she typed about it so difficult being the only woman in the senate. i have to take care of cleaning somebody's cat and making sure that bob heard is right for a price. and she kind of joked about the whole thing. and then she was also talking about the fact that people criticized her for being fairly soft-spoken. she says if anybody does a bummer time, i'm going to hit them over the head with this frame and. if you can approach it with some humor, that is bob dole. bob dole was so good at that. and we all teach communication as one of the things we tell our students a vacuum or is the best way to deflect you really can't situation. and if you can laugh at yourself, then you're fine.
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>> you know, when elizabeth dole made an exploratory bid to the presidency, bob dole created some negative press for her campaign when he said he was going to give a thousand dollars to john mccain. [laughter] and he said, just because your wife is run for president doesn't mean you can't support another candidate, but the press counts. and elizabeth dole decided some of that negative press by saying she was sending him out to the woodshed or some event artifact. so humor is the best way to handle a negative press situation. >> these two kinds of negativity. there is negative press you feel is focusing on irrelevant issues. and i think that humor is a really good way to deal with those kinds of matters. but i think when the criticism is some legitimate boundaries, you need to respond directly and
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very strongly. so the first to do is try to thwart the criticism into two columns. >> that is true for my mouse though. you can't just ignore legitimate criticism regardless of whether you are male or female candidate. it will catch up with you as some point. >> okay, let's go over here. >> i think it is more difficult for women to get elected in either party, one more difficult than the other? >> i really don't see a difference. i mean, there is more republican women governors and democrats. i think it's become pretty balanced. party doesn't seem to matter as much when it comes -- be a pretty strong women in both parties. >> okay come with a question over this way. >> i'm just curious, do you think of the last presidential
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election, it appeared that the existing president pretty much brutalized hillary clinton, or at least that is what the press is saying. is it easier for a woman to be negative on a male candidate as it is for a mail to be negative on a female candidate? and to suppress truth at the way? how does that come across? >> research would suggest that when men attacked women, there is more of a backlash against men. research would also suggest that anyone that runs the risk of being labeled overly aggressive. so i think both are hurt, but slightly different ways. >> yeah, if you remember the vice presidential debate, which has a larger audience than the presidential debate, but
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everybody was just waiting to sort of insult halen. that was when everybody was watching. and he was very well behaved. there is research that shows if you can keep it from being one-on-one. so for instance, women tend to run as many if not more negative as against men as men run. so women can use the negativity, but if it is not this kind of direct attack, and i think it's a little easier. >> we are going to stick to my questions. we have one here and then one writer. the front. >> hi, i was wondering, you talked about second wave feminists and then there've been a gap right now between second and third. i read a book a while ago called girls, don't cry. you may be familiar with it. it was written a feminist to criticize hillary for not
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calling upon her feminism more during her campaign. she sort of early knowledge that that they she was a female trailblazer until really her concession speech. and man, pale and also has criticism on how she dealt with feminism. and now, being a feminist is still sort of a bad word. so i'm just wondering, how do you think a female candidate would approach feminism and holiday i guess just approach it? >> go ahead, nikki. >> i don't and she should call attention to her trailblazing at first while she's running. i think that too many wearing your rage cannot relate to some of the obstacles that she face.
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more women than men are in law school and medical school now. and so, when elizabeth dole would describe how she was one of 24 women at harvard law school, is really an older notion at this point. if you get distances her from the younger audience is. so i don't think it's a good idea for modern women candidate to keep describing the obstacles they face and how unique they are because we tend to resist voting for someone who was the first of anything because it seems scary and probably not a good idea because it's never done it before. so i think taking attention away from that is better. >> and not labeling issues as women's issues are feminist issues. i think all the women in the book really didn't run as women. there's a book called running as a woman.
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but when pat schroeder ran the first time for congress on colorado, someone asked her to come her to come into play and is running as a woman? her question was, do i have another option? [laughter] it is obvious this is a woman. it's obviously never had a woman president. so i don't think you need to make a point of it. all of the cement had been successful in getting legislation through that is impacted women, that they framed it in a way that it is not a women's are feminist kind of issue. and every one of them has examples of that. if you stop and think of one time, education was considered more a women's issue with the state legislature until in the 80s we began connecting to economic development. a month they became an economic development issue, that is still ugly woman's issue because she takes care of the children. this is now everybody's issue.
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>> is one thing that younger people in the audience seemed to understand. for us, for our generation, women and also many, many men, it was a good thing, very good thing. so you've got these women who embrace feminism and it is a good thing in about discovered it's it's not working anymore. the women i teach don't want to be identified as feminists. it's the last thing they want to be identified with. you asked them, do you believe in this? to believe in this? and they say yes, yes you guessed it and then i go, here are feminist. the label is a positive. so you have many women not wanting to use the label, with not wanting to send signals associated because they know
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there is a group of voters out there who does see it the way our generation died. >> okay, we have time for one last question. i think you've had your hand up since the very beginning of the q&a session. >> how does race and ethnicity intersect with the other barriers and are there additional challenges a woman of color might face? >> well, when shirley chip home ran for president, she in 1972, she said that voters were more sexist than racist. and i think that thinking is still holding true today. i'm not sure if my colleagues here have some ideas on that. you mentioned may be an ethnic advantage, if you want to expand on that. >> how do i want to expand on
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that? this is a difficult question because people of color want to say no, no, no, no, you're wrong. but i think that in politics that leaves, ethnicity and race are now less of an issue than gender. i think orientation is a big issue. that is an incredible hurdle for men and women alike. and it's not just because we elected barack obama president. i think a number of things have occurred in our society down through the years. yes, there is still discrimination. there is discrimination galore in our society. but in politics at the high level, i don't think race and ethnicity are as much a problem as gender is. and please come in now, feel free to say you are wrong. because i am not speaking from those positions.
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>> nikki, tad, thank you so much for your wonderful program this evening. [applause] >> this is the first parish
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church in brunswick, maine and it significant to "uncle tom's cabin" is that in a race story began here. it is here in this pew, pew number 23 that harriet beecher stowe, by her account, thought the vision of uncle tom been whipped to death. now, uncle tom is you probably know is the title character, the hero of reaching 50 two novel of "uncle tom's cabin." he was a very good slave sold by his first kind owner, mr. shelby and the sole downriver and would prefer him to pay date on his plantation. enter a series of misadventures, you might say, he ends up in the hands of a very unruly owner who was so irritated by henman has
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gotten a comment that he would attend to. and this is the scene under which the entire novel in many respects grows. harriet beecher stowe came from a family, a religious family, but teachers in ohio where she grew up. and they were a highly religious family and there were an anti-slavery family. she was married to calvin stowe, who was a theology professor. her whole other standing of the spiritual world in which she moved to microsoft dictated by god, by the hand of god. and she often said, she said that "uncle tom's cabin," that it wasn't her that wrote it, but the hand of god who wrote this novel because she had very specific idea that slavery was wrong, a morally wrong and that
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should be abolished regardless of what the law of the state, the country said at the time. she came to brunswick because her husband, calvin stowe got a job at the college to be a professor there. he didn't go with her, however. he stayed in ohio and later moved to hand over in order to complete his contract they are as a professor. and she came without him, with her children issue is also also six months pregnant. she moved to brunswick to take up residence here, awaiting the arrival of her husband. from the stories we are told of harriet beecher stowe was she was a small, petite woman and she didn't take much care in terms of how she dressed. she was also very much a woman of her time. she was known then really mostly as a housewife. she was totally overwhelmed with
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the number of children she had. she had seven and she was pregnant. so that's how she was seen, and overworked housewife and mother who came to worship here, probably with her children at her sister, catherine beecher, who eventually moved in with her. and they all came and worshiped in this church. when we first meet uncle tom in his cabin, and it's hard, what is he doing? he's learning to read the bible. and it is in the bible, or the bible is kind of an enter text for "uncle tom's cabin" because what we do, right and wrong is that this novel is telling us to do. one thing that irritates people is how didactic it is. several times in which the narrator appears in the novel herself say, what would you do in this situation? would you do the right thing at the wrong thing?
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and that kind of moral order is what she is recruiting in "uncle tom's cabin." she's really kind of rating a new bible for the mid-19th century, given the conflict over slavery a nation is facing. >> we're at number 63, federal street. we are at the house of harriet beecher stowe, where she lived and worked in 1850. anna was also known as the 10th house because it's named after the original owners, the tick comes, she rented this house from him. and he just lived on the road over there and did most of the repairs on the house when she lived here. she needed new stove, the house when she moved in, she complained about a state of disrepair. it was draftee, pooled, but over time she slowly managed to do some renovations herself as she rode funny letters back to her friends and family about how
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hard it was to get people to help her with these repairs because you have to get into this long conversation. she's the epitome of yankee down to get anybody to help her out. she paid $125 a month for the past, which was much more than they could afford. it is about $75 a month. and for two years she lived here with her children. calvin, her husband eventually came, also her sister, catherine beecher came and lived with her. so it was a house chock full of people. we'll go inside and no seat is a pretty big home to could accommodate a lot of people. maybe not that many people. so here we are in the house in very little of this would've looked like this when stowe was here. it was completely renovated. the carpet, staircase even transformed.
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there are some original wallpapers underneath, but even that doesn't take back to the time. so the house has just gone through many carnations. but it was important to her of course because it is where she was able to think and write about her novel, "uncle tom's cabin." for me, one of the important features of this house is the kitchen because the kitchen is for a housewife herself in another, really the home at heart of who she was. indication, we don't know if this is the original kitchen by any means, but it is in the kitchen is still conducted her own classes. she's totters children herself kind of an old-style form of homeschooling. but also invited children from the neighborhood to think and work with her. she gave readings. both of her own stash of his writing, but also from

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